Jesuit Astronomers, what do you think?
Today on NPR’s Speaking of Faith the guests were two Jesuit Astronomers who work at the Vatican. I was impressed and pleased to hear that these men have no problem with worshiping the God of Abraham while pursuing pure science, they had some interesting views on God, science and the interaction thereof. Some snippets from the interview (full transcript available at http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/2010/asteroids/transcript.shtml) "Ms. Tippett: And so this sort of evokes a question that I've heard raised in discussions about science and religion. People will say the difference between a scientific perspective and a religious perspective is that scientists are asking questions and open to having every idea disproved. OK? And they'll say religion does not have that flexibility. Br. Consolmagno: Obviously they've never talked to a theologian. Ms. Tippett: Right. Well, that's true. Fr. Coyne: Or a true religious believer." And earlier: "Fr. Coyne: Correct. My take on the relationship, my personal life, OK, is built upon the following: I'm a scientist. I try and understand the universe. My understanding of the universe does not need God." So what do you think? Do you think it is possible to maintain faith alongside science? Do you think that it has to be one or the other?
Religion & Spirituality - 2 Answers
Random Answers, Critics, Comments, Opinions :
1 :
The opposite of faith isn't doubt, it's certainty. that was a great program.
2 :
The relationship between religion and science has been a focus of the demarcation problem. Statements about the world made by science and religion rely on different methodologies. Religions rely on revelation and faith, while science relies on observable, repeatable experiences, ontological naturalism, philosophical realism, rational skepticism, fallibilism, the thesis that nothing comes from nothing, and the law of economy. Some scholars say the two are separate, as in John William Draper's conflict thesis and Stephen Jay Gould's non-overlapping magisteria, while others (Thomas Berry, Brian Swimme, Ken Wilber, et al.) propose an interconnection. The Pew Forum has published data on attitudes about religion and science.
Monday, September 21, 2009
Monday, September 14, 2009
In Vassalord, what happened to Charley's real hands
In Vassalord, what happened to Charley's real hands?
I was reading volume for and I came across the side story of the cat maid putting blood inside of Charley's real hands. I really want to know what happened to his hands. I know that he became a cyborg and that he work for the Vatican. Maybe he cut them off because crosses would burn his hands?? I don't really know. It said to refer to drama CD 2 but I don't understand Japanese.^^* is anyone willing to explain?? Also, why does Charley's hands have nail polish in them?? It seems funny^^ lol
Comics & Animation - 1 Answers
Random Answers, Critics, Comments, Opinions :
1 :
It was sacrified to satan as promised.
I was reading volume for and I came across the side story of the cat maid putting blood inside of Charley's real hands. I really want to know what happened to his hands. I know that he became a cyborg and that he work for the Vatican. Maybe he cut them off because crosses would burn his hands?? I don't really know. It said to refer to drama CD 2 but I don't understand Japanese.^^* is anyone willing to explain?? Also, why does Charley's hands have nail polish in them?? It seems funny^^ lol
Comics & Animation - 1 Answers
Random Answers, Critics, Comments, Opinions :
1 :
It was sacrified to satan as promised.
Monday, September 7, 2009
Why many people are too envious of the wealth and luxury of the Vatican
Why many people are too envious of the wealth and luxury of the Vatican???
I'm not catholic but I'm a christian.Why some people are too envious and jealous about the wealth of the Vatican.The pope lives as a son of a KING that we are.What people should enjoy the wealth and the luxury???The sinners,the gangsters???NO! The money and the wealth is for the children of God.If the mafia can ride around in a BMW and have 5 homes why the children of the king can't????You should work more and study in order to live better.I can feel your huge envy,but that is your problem,not mine,not the problem of the pope and is not the problem of the Vatican.If you are to mad about that BITE YOUR EYE!!!And you use the poor people to support your envy,come on don't be hypocrite......
Religion & Spirituality - 10 Answers
Random Answers, Critics, Comments, Opinions :
1 :
I guess threatening people with eternal flames will scare them into giving you some money
2 :
The pope is the anti-christ!
3 :
God is not the author of envy, satan has that market cornered. May God Bless U.
4 :
What happened to the vow of poverty and all that!! That's overindulgence and disgusting.
5 :
Actually the Pope lives in a small, simple apartment, far less well equipped than most modern homes, and owns nothing, not even the clothing he wears. People might be envious though of the fact that the Catholic Church provides more essential human services to the poor of the world than ALL other churches combined! It's not whether you possess wealth, it's how you use it. .
6 :
I am not enviousof the pope, I like my life the way things are. I do find it strange that the first property I ever bought was a church in the UK. The church is selling its property because it cannot maintain them, which forces the parishoners to either travel for up to an hour and a hlf to go to church or no go at all. Surely the pope would want to give as many people as possible free access to worship the lord. Also, does money make you closer to God? Didn't Jesus apparently live the life as a pauper - shouldn't God's rep on Earth do the same. Show that it is devotion that brings people to God, not gold.
7 :
Envious is not the word----disgust is more like it.
8 :
Jesus Christ, the TRUE head of the Church and actual partriach of Christianity lived a Humble and Simple life and HE is the son of the King of Kings.... what makes a pope, a pastor or a priest better than him? People do not envy the wealth that they poesses but most are upset at the way this wealth was acquired through out history... bled out from the VERY PEOPLE that the church was supposed to have protected, bribe through by the rich and powerful who wanted to "absolve" themselves.... As for you recognising ENVY in others... how can you know what Envy feels like unless you yourself have Envy within you? So I won't try to point fingers at others if I were you, coz as a christian isn't Judging others a bad thing also? Jesus gave EVERYTHING he had for the poor and also the rich... The Vatican gives too... but the amount that they give isn't in proportion to the amount that they receive... How can they teach people to Honor Generosity and Charity when they themselves are holding back? A pastor once said,. " True Charity is giving what you cannot afford and having faith that God will provide the necessities for you to give." The Late Great Mother Teresa said, " True Generousity of the Heart is in Giving what others find difficult to part with"
9 :
Actually the Pope himself lives rather modestly in a small apartment in the nation that is the Vatican. Certainly simpler then any other head of state (which he is also). The Vatican has made agreemnts to never sell off it's items (like an art museum might) but instead to preserve the history for all humanity. These are not Papal possesions but possesions of the state of Vatican City. Do I have a problem with it being maintained no. Would I have a problem with it if they tried to build another YES. Simple fact these things are not going anywhere first off all no private collector could afford (as they are priceless)or should be able to own them, they are humanities treasures. The above person is right the Catholic Church gives more per year in humanitarian aid and assistance (to anyone not just Catholics) then all other Churches combined and more then any other single institution on the planet. I wonder why no one ever argues that the government of India should sell off the Taj Mahal to feed it's poor like they do the government of the Vatican should. Tiara: the Late great Mother Teresa died one of the richest women in the world and her order is richer then most other Catholic religious orders combined. While they do good work the order as a corporation is not the model for parting with wealth.
10 :
Remember that the pope can't get laid!
I'm not catholic but I'm a christian.Why some people are too envious and jealous about the wealth of the Vatican.The pope lives as a son of a KING that we are.What people should enjoy the wealth and the luxury???The sinners,the gangsters???NO! The money and the wealth is for the children of God.If the mafia can ride around in a BMW and have 5 homes why the children of the king can't????You should work more and study in order to live better.I can feel your huge envy,but that is your problem,not mine,not the problem of the pope and is not the problem of the Vatican.If you are to mad about that BITE YOUR EYE!!!And you use the poor people to support your envy,come on don't be hypocrite......
Religion & Spirituality - 10 Answers
Random Answers, Critics, Comments, Opinions :
1 :
I guess threatening people with eternal flames will scare them into giving you some money
2 :
The pope is the anti-christ!
3 :
God is not the author of envy, satan has that market cornered. May God Bless U.
4 :
What happened to the vow of poverty and all that!! That's overindulgence and disgusting.
5 :
Actually the Pope lives in a small, simple apartment, far less well equipped than most modern homes, and owns nothing, not even the clothing he wears. People might be envious though of the fact that the Catholic Church provides more essential human services to the poor of the world than ALL other churches combined! It's not whether you possess wealth, it's how you use it. .
6 :
I am not enviousof the pope, I like my life the way things are. I do find it strange that the first property I ever bought was a church in the UK. The church is selling its property because it cannot maintain them, which forces the parishoners to either travel for up to an hour and a hlf to go to church or no go at all. Surely the pope would want to give as many people as possible free access to worship the lord. Also, does money make you closer to God? Didn't Jesus apparently live the life as a pauper - shouldn't God's rep on Earth do the same. Show that it is devotion that brings people to God, not gold.
7 :
Envious is not the word----disgust is more like it.
8 :
Jesus Christ, the TRUE head of the Church and actual partriach of Christianity lived a Humble and Simple life and HE is the son of the King of Kings.... what makes a pope, a pastor or a priest better than him? People do not envy the wealth that they poesses but most are upset at the way this wealth was acquired through out history... bled out from the VERY PEOPLE that the church was supposed to have protected, bribe through by the rich and powerful who wanted to "absolve" themselves.... As for you recognising ENVY in others... how can you know what Envy feels like unless you yourself have Envy within you? So I won't try to point fingers at others if I were you, coz as a christian isn't Judging others a bad thing also? Jesus gave EVERYTHING he had for the poor and also the rich... The Vatican gives too... but the amount that they give isn't in proportion to the amount that they receive... How can they teach people to Honor Generosity and Charity when they themselves are holding back? A pastor once said,. " True Charity is giving what you cannot afford and having faith that God will provide the necessities for you to give." The Late Great Mother Teresa said, " True Generousity of the Heart is in Giving what others find difficult to part with"
9 :
Actually the Pope himself lives rather modestly in a small apartment in the nation that is the Vatican. Certainly simpler then any other head of state (which he is also). The Vatican has made agreemnts to never sell off it's items (like an art museum might) but instead to preserve the history for all humanity. These are not Papal possesions but possesions of the state of Vatican City. Do I have a problem with it being maintained no. Would I have a problem with it if they tried to build another YES. Simple fact these things are not going anywhere first off all no private collector could afford (as they are priceless)or should be able to own them, they are humanities treasures. The above person is right the Catholic Church gives more per year in humanitarian aid and assistance (to anyone not just Catholics) then all other Churches combined and more then any other single institution on the planet. I wonder why no one ever argues that the government of India should sell off the Taj Mahal to feed it's poor like they do the government of the Vatican should. Tiara: the Late great Mother Teresa died one of the richest women in the world and her order is richer then most other Catholic religious orders combined. While they do good work the order as a corporation is not the model for parting with wealth.
10 :
Remember that the pope can't get laid!
Tuesday, September 1, 2009
Are Catholics willfully blind to the obscene wealth and opulence of the Vatican
Are Catholics willfully blind to the obscene wealth and opulence of the Vatican?
I was criticizing the Catholics yesterday just to see how they'd react and what kind of arguments they'd make to defend their evil organization, and I noticed some of them had the gall to say, "What wealth? What opulence?" in response to my harmless questions. Religious people have a very selective perception of reality, right? If they perceive a reality that doesn’t conform with their beliefs, they just reject it and claim it's not reality. Is this what Catholics are doing with this example? Because the Vatican is worth billions! The evil Catholic hierarchy has accumulated a massive pile of wealth, all from using scare tactics about hell and an angry imaginary god to unethically take money from ignorant people. And the charity work the Catholic Church does is merely a token effort, a small percentage of the overall wealth of the organization; the charity work done by the Catholic Church is merely window dressing. Catholics don't like this reality, so they just reject it, right; they willfully blind themselves to the evil and greed of their organization?
Religion & Spirituality - 21 Answers
Random Answers, Critics, Comments, Opinions :
1 :
As much as I have disagreed with you on other subjects, on this one I agree to a very large extent. There is no reason for the Vatican to be sitting on untold billions of dollars worth. It's simply not Christ like.
2 :
Could you possibly mean the Corporate Offices of the worlds' largest Real Estate Company? That place?
3 :
Damn right they are. The Vatican is worth about $4 BILLION dollars yet about 15,000 children die each day in this world from poverty related causes. It's hypocrisy and they have no intentions of doing anything about it. Last year comedienne Sarah Silverstein suggested that the Vatican be sold to help pay for poorer children worldwide. The gargoyles at the helm unleashed a scathing screed against her. Guess we know who their real God is: money. It's a cult.
4 :
Most rank and file Catholics simply don't know.
5 :
they dont care.
6 :
Economics 101: supply & demand. Should all Catholics agree that the "Pieta" is worthless, and not Divinely inspired, then nobody would want it. Since we believe it is invaluable and Divinely Inspired... Even atheists would pay mega for it. So the whole wealth rests on a worlds belief of Divinity. If the Vatican sold everything, then the surge of supply would make it all worthless. Bottom line is the culture is Coveting others goods --- Which is a no-no in the 10 commandments.
7 :
No, you are blind to the obvious truth. The Vatican and it's wealth belong to Catholics...all of us. No one person owns it or is rich because of it. Much of the Catholic Church's wealth is in art, artifacts and property that has been part of it for hundreds of years. <<charity work done by the Catholic Church is merely window dressing. >> What??? That's ridiculous. There are Catholic hospitals, Catholic schools, Catholic shelters all over the world, that help thousands and thousands of people regardless of their faith. If the Catholic Church were to shut down, and all that we do was to go away, people would realize all that the Church does. The Church does have wealth, but what is wrong with that? It is 2000 years old!! Can you prove that the wealth of the Church is being used for evil or personal gain?
8 :
Yeah, you're right, they should sell it all and give everyone in the world a couple dollars. The Church does way more good now than the shortsited selling of their property would bring about. The Catholic Church is the largest charity in the world, period. The pope has nice gifts that have been given to the Church by kings and queens over the past 2 millenia and wears for public appearences, but he lives in an appartment, eats simple meals, and spends hours each day in prayer. The architectural masterpieces in the Vatican are a part of history and cannot simply be sold. Who would buy St. Peter's Basillica? Besides, as I said the money generated from selling the Vatican would not serve much use when spread out to all the poor in the world. Long-term, not short-term resolutions to poverty must be found, and the Church has long been a force of social justice.
9 :
I agree with Misty. Also, the majority of the riches of the Vatican all honour God. If kings and queens and rich people live in very exquisite surroundings, doesn't God deserve that even more and the Vatican is the seat of the Holy See (the Pope who is God's representative on Earth). Trust me, YOU WHO GO BY SO MANY DIFFERENT NAMES HERE, I have no qualms about the beauty that honours God at the Vatican and I feel absolutely no shame in being Catholic. Talk about wasting your life away. Why don't you actually do something productive instead of all this negative mumbo-jumbo you keep doing here. No wonder you keep changing your pictures and names here.
10 :
The Catholic Church claims over 1.2 billion members. If each of those members gave one single dollar (or foreign equivalent) every Sunday, the Church would obviously gain money exponentially. Of course, some members give more, and some give less. Often, they give nothing. The church does not require members to give any set amount. Only asks for what you can give after taking care of yourself and your family. The fact that the Church takes in a lot of money does not make it evil, or wealthy either. The Catholic Church is responsible for funding the most for charities around the world. It is responsible for establishing hundreds of hospitals and universities every year. This is no 'small token'. Every church of every denomination accepts donations from its members in order to cover operating costs and pay for missions. The Catholic Church is no different. Just because it is bigger, it makes more. This simply catches more attention then other denominations.
11 :
so...../ because they have been around for centuries and thus have beautiful art works and historical pieces that ARE priceless.... to whom would they be sold? a private collector so that no one ever sees the beauty, strength and utter grief of the pieta? destroy the wall in the sistine chapel with michelangelo's last judgment.... because that's the only way it could be "removed" and again.... to whom would it be sold?! why is the POTUS sitting in the white house or the british monarchy in their castle or they have been around for the duration and selling is not an option. you have OBVIOUSLY never been to the Vatican nor visited a museum let alone another country.... if you were educated enough you would see that your comments are absolutely asinine. i don't see you chastizing ted turner or bill gates or warren buffet or oprah winfrey all in their glorious mansions and "token" redistribution of wealth. i'm dumbfounded that you find these facts from ONE of the many Catholic organizations "token efforts". your hate and ignorance has clouded any semblance of sense. Catholic Charities Social Services13 In 2009, more than 2,391 local Catholic Charities agencies and institutions provided services to 9,164,981 unduplicated individuals in need of help. Provided Services that Build Strong Communities to 3,956,234 people Social support services 1,999,189 Education and enrichment 730,645 Socialization and neighborhood services 490,850 Health-related services 305,287 Services to at-risk populations 430,263 Provided Food Services to 7,216,379 people Food banks and food pantries 3,281,135 Soup kitchens 1,1,484,735 Congregate dining 1,609,935 Home delivered meals 264,731 Other food services 575,843 Provided Services that Strengthen Families to 1,064,913 people Counseling and mental health services 419,222 Immigration services 319,952 Addiction services 87,315 Refugee services 100,465 Pregnancy services 93,977 Adoption services 43,982 Provided Housing Related Services to 497,271 people Counseling and Assistance 205,262 Temporary shelter 144,210 Supervised living 64,789 Permanent housing 60,196 Transitional housing 22,814 Provided Other Basic Needs Services to 1,933,799 people Financial Assistance (not rent, mortgage, etc.) 234,292 Clothing Assistance 604,873 Utilities Assistance 332,815 Assistance with Purchase of Prescriptions 50,566 Additional Other Basic Needs Assistance 711,253 Provided Disaster Services to 99,665 people Programs for Special Populations 207,465 SO WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? WHAT HAS YOUR CHURCH DONE?
12 :
Obviously your prejudice is influencing your reason. The Church maintains religious art and artifacts that are indeed priceless but they do so that they will be available to everyone to admire and enjoy. It is not fitting that those things done out of a love for God be put away in private collections so that very few can admire the dedication and skill of those who loved God. Yes, the Church is the most charitable entity on the planet. So much so that the Church operates on a deficit most years. The Church feeds, clothes, houses, educates and gives medical care to more people than anyone else. You appear to be jealous of the Church's charity. God bless! In Christ Fr. Joseph
13 :
The Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization in the world. Disaster Relief, injustice, advocacy, counseling, additions, food banks, homeless shelters, schools, day cares, old age homes, hospitals, etc..., name any type of Christian charitable cause and the Catholic Church is there. The Catholic Church provides more support than any other Christian Church or organization. Our Monks, Nuns, Priests, and lay people dedicate themselves for life in service to the poor. You do not get to be the largest and oldest (the first one actually) Christian Church without taking care of people. IE, the other day I read that over 40% of all health care in Kenya is provided by the Catholic Church, a friend once volunteered at Bethlehem University operated by the Vatican where people trapped in Palestine (Christian and Muslims) can get a good free education, I help out at the local Catholic food bank. Some Christian Churches are applauded more as they spend alot of resources on promoting themselves as charities, not Churches. Some Christian Churches wave the banners of "look at us and the good we do," the Catholic Church does not emphasis this as we want our reward to be great in Heaven. Matthew 6:1-8 "(But) take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see them; otherwise, you will have no recompense from your heavenly Father. When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing, so that your alms giving may be secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you. "When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you. In praying, do not babble like the pagans, who think that they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them. Your Father knows what you need before you ask him. When it comes to so-called opulence? It is not a waste. Most acquisitions are gifts from the ordinary faithful to God to adorne the Church, a one time offering that can be used for hundred of years. The Church is the House of God and the Castle of the King. We should give Him the best we can. Mark 14:3-7: ...a woman came with an alabaster jar of perfumed oil, costly genuine spikenard. She broke the alabaster jar and poured it on his head. There were some who were indignant. "Why has there been this waste of perfumed oil? It could have been sold for more than three hundred days' wages and the money given to the poor." They were infuriated with her. Jesus said, "Let her alone. Why do you make trouble for her? She has done a good thing for me. The poor you will always have with you, and whenever you wish you can do good to them,...
14 :
You should also take into consideration the extreme wealth of several American business men. The extreme wealth of several rulers whose subjects are starving to death. Do not forget all the people who point the finger at others while doing nothing to help solve the problem themselves. Tell everybody how much you given to charity this month? BTW You should try to find a new question to ask. This has been used so many times
15 :
I spose Desiree' I mean here we all are tryin to show them the massive errors within their institution and they'll have none of it, they will defend her unto the end, and attack with hatred and spew lies, report and call out, ridicule condescend and the list does indeed go on, this institution has created IMHO monsters, and according to Scripture, we ain;t seen Nothin' yet:-( just wait...
16 :
Yes, yes Desiree... just spout your false assumptions with no sources. LOL... that's all your good for, hear say. Your the fool making bigger fools out of those ignorant enough to believe you without researching it for themselves.
17 :
Two thousand years of opulence and wealth--amazing isn't it. Just how did those lion-fighting catacomb-dwellers suddenly get so wealthy? Must have been the Roman emperors had sudden mercy on them and donated their own personal fortunes--before their empire fell, of course. So the Catholics took all the money and built a Vatican Cathedral. That's the short version. For the long version, and for those who are running out of "historical" novelties and inventions, see the 15,000 pages of the 1907 Catholic Encyclopedia and its 300,000 authors & references. That'll keep you out of mischief. Traditional Catholics of Trent at traditionalmass.org/
18 :
Your ignorance and bigotry is staggering. How do you value the Vatican and artworks that are priceless? How do you value the White House and the Washington Monument and the Capital Building? Wouldn't you say it would make sense for the US Government to sell off all its military hardware and all the monuments in DC to pay off the national debt and free up our economy? Yeah, that would be about the same kind of rocket scientist idea as trying to sell off the Vatican and help more people. First, you have no idea what you speak of in regards to the Vatican. It is a very small place and is very beautiful. It is also in use every day for students, tourists, religious pilgrims and the faithful of the Church. You don't just sell something off like that in the same way that you just don't sell the White House and the Washington Monument to the highest bidder. They kind of lose their 'priceless' value when they are no longer used as government buildings too. Most people who try to put values on places of worship and history like the Vatican do so out of simplemindedness and bigotry. Second, you have no idea what the Catholic Church is. The Roman Catholic Church is the largest private charity in the world and in the USA. Millions of people are fed, sheltered, clothed, healed and educated every day throughout the world by the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church runs hospitals, clinics, universities, high schools, middle schools, elementary schools, soup kitchens, refugee camps, job training programs, battered womens shelters, and thrift stores throughout the world as just part of its good works for humanity. The Roman Catholic Church is responsible for inventing both the university and the hospital. Pretty evil things huh? You might want to take a business class. A charity does not continue to serve people and do good every day by selling off all its buildings, hospitals, soup kitchens and handing out the money to people and disappearing. When those people get done spending that money - the charity has already ceased to exist. Over a billion people alive today on earth don't have any agreement with you. I think even a billion more of the common sense muslims, Jews and others would also agree that your ideas are hateful and lacking in common sense.
19 :
The wealth and opulence you speak of consists of thousand year old pieces of art and nothing more. Lol, I think you are a little selective of your reality! The pope lives in three rooms, the Italian authorities deemed it unfit to live in because of the ancient electrical wiring and JP2 put jugs in the ceiling to catch rain water. The Vatican is priceless, it would be a great loss to the world to sell Western history off to the highest bidder, I would much rather it remain on display at the Vatican. Lol, I have never been threatened with hell, Catholics generally don't do that, you are thinking more angry southern fundies. Lol, the Vatican runs a deficit, you know? Even with that, the pope donated 100000 to Japan relief efforts. We reject reality? I think you need to take a good look into the mirror.
20 :
Most of the so called "wealth of The Church" is not because of actual currency but because of the perceived wealth. For example, last summer my wife and I visited the lovely city of Halifax, and we toured many old churches of many faiths. All of them we said to have very expensive land, but also that they were built centuries earlier. Because the item is so old, these churches were built on land that was worthless, and now in the 21st century is worth a fortune. The same is true of most Catholic parishes today. Now what about parishes built in *very* expensive cities like NYC, Rome, London, Dublin, Toronto, Melbourne... etc etc etc? The land at the time was dirt cheap, but now the location, based on modern city planning, is worth a ton, so that gives the false impression of wealth. Then there is the fact that some things that give them their wealth are *only* considered "expensive" for the simple reason that is belongs to The Church. such as the letter Henry VIII wrote to the pope in centuries past. Or an artifact that was used in the 11th century, etc. If it was just a regular item owned by a peasant, it's appraised value would be significantly less. Then looking at the money taken in today, lets compare it to the money given out. Since The Church is the world's largest charity, with all it's earnings being publicly declared for over 30 years, that "wealth" is short lived. Your argument is flawed. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to destroy such an argument for both yourself and other such like minded bigots. :D
21 :
Catholic Charities in my city does more that all of the other protestant charities combined. It sounds like you just have a chip on your shoulder.
I was criticizing the Catholics yesterday just to see how they'd react and what kind of arguments they'd make to defend their evil organization, and I noticed some of them had the gall to say, "What wealth? What opulence?" in response to my harmless questions. Religious people have a very selective perception of reality, right? If they perceive a reality that doesn’t conform with their beliefs, they just reject it and claim it's not reality. Is this what Catholics are doing with this example? Because the Vatican is worth billions! The evil Catholic hierarchy has accumulated a massive pile of wealth, all from using scare tactics about hell and an angry imaginary god to unethically take money from ignorant people. And the charity work the Catholic Church does is merely a token effort, a small percentage of the overall wealth of the organization; the charity work done by the Catholic Church is merely window dressing. Catholics don't like this reality, so they just reject it, right; they willfully blind themselves to the evil and greed of their organization?
Religion & Spirituality - 21 Answers
Random Answers, Critics, Comments, Opinions :
1 :
As much as I have disagreed with you on other subjects, on this one I agree to a very large extent. There is no reason for the Vatican to be sitting on untold billions of dollars worth. It's simply not Christ like.
2 :
Could you possibly mean the Corporate Offices of the worlds' largest Real Estate Company? That place?
3 :
Damn right they are. The Vatican is worth about $4 BILLION dollars yet about 15,000 children die each day in this world from poverty related causes. It's hypocrisy and they have no intentions of doing anything about it. Last year comedienne Sarah Silverstein suggested that the Vatican be sold to help pay for poorer children worldwide. The gargoyles at the helm unleashed a scathing screed against her. Guess we know who their real God is: money. It's a cult.
4 :
Most rank and file Catholics simply don't know.
5 :
they dont care.
6 :
Economics 101: supply & demand. Should all Catholics agree that the "Pieta" is worthless, and not Divinely inspired, then nobody would want it. Since we believe it is invaluable and Divinely Inspired... Even atheists would pay mega for it. So the whole wealth rests on a worlds belief of Divinity. If the Vatican sold everything, then the surge of supply would make it all worthless. Bottom line is the culture is Coveting others goods --- Which is a no-no in the 10 commandments.
7 :
No, you are blind to the obvious truth. The Vatican and it's wealth belong to Catholics...all of us. No one person owns it or is rich because of it. Much of the Catholic Church's wealth is in art, artifacts and property that has been part of it for hundreds of years. <<charity work done by the Catholic Church is merely window dressing. >> What??? That's ridiculous. There are Catholic hospitals, Catholic schools, Catholic shelters all over the world, that help thousands and thousands of people regardless of their faith. If the Catholic Church were to shut down, and all that we do was to go away, people would realize all that the Church does. The Church does have wealth, but what is wrong with that? It is 2000 years old!! Can you prove that the wealth of the Church is being used for evil or personal gain?
8 :
Yeah, you're right, they should sell it all and give everyone in the world a couple dollars. The Church does way more good now than the shortsited selling of their property would bring about. The Catholic Church is the largest charity in the world, period. The pope has nice gifts that have been given to the Church by kings and queens over the past 2 millenia and wears for public appearences, but he lives in an appartment, eats simple meals, and spends hours each day in prayer. The architectural masterpieces in the Vatican are a part of history and cannot simply be sold. Who would buy St. Peter's Basillica? Besides, as I said the money generated from selling the Vatican would not serve much use when spread out to all the poor in the world. Long-term, not short-term resolutions to poverty must be found, and the Church has long been a force of social justice.
9 :
I agree with Misty. Also, the majority of the riches of the Vatican all honour God. If kings and queens and rich people live in very exquisite surroundings, doesn't God deserve that even more and the Vatican is the seat of the Holy See (the Pope who is God's representative on Earth). Trust me, YOU WHO GO BY SO MANY DIFFERENT NAMES HERE, I have no qualms about the beauty that honours God at the Vatican and I feel absolutely no shame in being Catholic. Talk about wasting your life away. Why don't you actually do something productive instead of all this negative mumbo-jumbo you keep doing here. No wonder you keep changing your pictures and names here.
10 :
The Catholic Church claims over 1.2 billion members. If each of those members gave one single dollar (or foreign equivalent) every Sunday, the Church would obviously gain money exponentially. Of course, some members give more, and some give less. Often, they give nothing. The church does not require members to give any set amount. Only asks for what you can give after taking care of yourself and your family. The fact that the Church takes in a lot of money does not make it evil, or wealthy either. The Catholic Church is responsible for funding the most for charities around the world. It is responsible for establishing hundreds of hospitals and universities every year. This is no 'small token'. Every church of every denomination accepts donations from its members in order to cover operating costs and pay for missions. The Catholic Church is no different. Just because it is bigger, it makes more. This simply catches more attention then other denominations.
11 :
so...../ because they have been around for centuries and thus have beautiful art works and historical pieces that ARE priceless.... to whom would they be sold? a private collector so that no one ever sees the beauty, strength and utter grief of the pieta? destroy the wall in the sistine chapel with michelangelo's last judgment.... because that's the only way it could be "removed" and again.... to whom would it be sold?! why is the POTUS sitting in the white house or the british monarchy in their castle or they have been around for the duration and selling is not an option. you have OBVIOUSLY never been to the Vatican nor visited a museum let alone another country.... if you were educated enough you would see that your comments are absolutely asinine. i don't see you chastizing ted turner or bill gates or warren buffet or oprah winfrey all in their glorious mansions and "token" redistribution of wealth. i'm dumbfounded that you find these facts from ONE of the many Catholic organizations "token efforts". your hate and ignorance has clouded any semblance of sense. Catholic Charities Social Services13 In 2009, more than 2,391 local Catholic Charities agencies and institutions provided services to 9,164,981 unduplicated individuals in need of help. Provided Services that Build Strong Communities to 3,956,234 people Social support services 1,999,189 Education and enrichment 730,645 Socialization and neighborhood services 490,850 Health-related services 305,287 Services to at-risk populations 430,263 Provided Food Services to 7,216,379 people Food banks and food pantries 3,281,135 Soup kitchens 1,1,484,735 Congregate dining 1,609,935 Home delivered meals 264,731 Other food services 575,843 Provided Services that Strengthen Families to 1,064,913 people Counseling and mental health services 419,222 Immigration services 319,952 Addiction services 87,315 Refugee services 100,465 Pregnancy services 93,977 Adoption services 43,982 Provided Housing Related Services to 497,271 people Counseling and Assistance 205,262 Temporary shelter 144,210 Supervised living 64,789 Permanent housing 60,196 Transitional housing 22,814 Provided Other Basic Needs Services to 1,933,799 people Financial Assistance (not rent, mortgage, etc.) 234,292 Clothing Assistance 604,873 Utilities Assistance 332,815 Assistance with Purchase of Prescriptions 50,566 Additional Other Basic Needs Assistance 711,253 Provided Disaster Services to 99,665 people Programs for Special Populations 207,465 SO WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? WHAT HAS YOUR CHURCH DONE?
12 :
Obviously your prejudice is influencing your reason. The Church maintains religious art and artifacts that are indeed priceless but they do so that they will be available to everyone to admire and enjoy. It is not fitting that those things done out of a love for God be put away in private collections so that very few can admire the dedication and skill of those who loved God. Yes, the Church is the most charitable entity on the planet. So much so that the Church operates on a deficit most years. The Church feeds, clothes, houses, educates and gives medical care to more people than anyone else. You appear to be jealous of the Church's charity. God bless! In Christ Fr. Joseph
13 :
The Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization in the world. Disaster Relief, injustice, advocacy, counseling, additions, food banks, homeless shelters, schools, day cares, old age homes, hospitals, etc..., name any type of Christian charitable cause and the Catholic Church is there. The Catholic Church provides more support than any other Christian Church or organization. Our Monks, Nuns, Priests, and lay people dedicate themselves for life in service to the poor. You do not get to be the largest and oldest (the first one actually) Christian Church without taking care of people. IE, the other day I read that over 40% of all health care in Kenya is provided by the Catholic Church, a friend once volunteered at Bethlehem University operated by the Vatican where people trapped in Palestine (Christian and Muslims) can get a good free education, I help out at the local Catholic food bank. Some Christian Churches are applauded more as they spend alot of resources on promoting themselves as charities, not Churches. Some Christian Churches wave the banners of "look at us and the good we do," the Catholic Church does not emphasis this as we want our reward to be great in Heaven. Matthew 6:1-8 "(But) take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see them; otherwise, you will have no recompense from your heavenly Father. When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing, so that your alms giving may be secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you. "When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you. In praying, do not babble like the pagans, who think that they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them. Your Father knows what you need before you ask him. When it comes to so-called opulence? It is not a waste. Most acquisitions are gifts from the ordinary faithful to God to adorne the Church, a one time offering that can be used for hundred of years. The Church is the House of God and the Castle of the King. We should give Him the best we can. Mark 14:3-7: ...a woman came with an alabaster jar of perfumed oil, costly genuine spikenard. She broke the alabaster jar and poured it on his head. There were some who were indignant. "Why has there been this waste of perfumed oil? It could have been sold for more than three hundred days' wages and the money given to the poor." They were infuriated with her. Jesus said, "Let her alone. Why do you make trouble for her? She has done a good thing for me. The poor you will always have with you, and whenever you wish you can do good to them,...
14 :
You should also take into consideration the extreme wealth of several American business men. The extreme wealth of several rulers whose subjects are starving to death. Do not forget all the people who point the finger at others while doing nothing to help solve the problem themselves. Tell everybody how much you given to charity this month? BTW You should try to find a new question to ask. This has been used so many times
15 :
I spose Desiree' I mean here we all are tryin to show them the massive errors within their institution and they'll have none of it, they will defend her unto the end, and attack with hatred and spew lies, report and call out, ridicule condescend and the list does indeed go on, this institution has created IMHO monsters, and according to Scripture, we ain;t seen Nothin' yet:-( just wait...
16 :
Yes, yes Desiree... just spout your false assumptions with no sources. LOL... that's all your good for, hear say. Your the fool making bigger fools out of those ignorant enough to believe you without researching it for themselves.
17 :
Two thousand years of opulence and wealth--amazing isn't it. Just how did those lion-fighting catacomb-dwellers suddenly get so wealthy? Must have been the Roman emperors had sudden mercy on them and donated their own personal fortunes--before their empire fell, of course. So the Catholics took all the money and built a Vatican Cathedral. That's the short version. For the long version, and for those who are running out of "historical" novelties and inventions, see the 15,000 pages of the 1907 Catholic Encyclopedia and its 300,000 authors & references. That'll keep you out of mischief. Traditional Catholics of Trent at traditionalmass.org/
18 :
Your ignorance and bigotry is staggering. How do you value the Vatican and artworks that are priceless? How do you value the White House and the Washington Monument and the Capital Building? Wouldn't you say it would make sense for the US Government to sell off all its military hardware and all the monuments in DC to pay off the national debt and free up our economy? Yeah, that would be about the same kind of rocket scientist idea as trying to sell off the Vatican and help more people. First, you have no idea what you speak of in regards to the Vatican. It is a very small place and is very beautiful. It is also in use every day for students, tourists, religious pilgrims and the faithful of the Church. You don't just sell something off like that in the same way that you just don't sell the White House and the Washington Monument to the highest bidder. They kind of lose their 'priceless' value when they are no longer used as government buildings too. Most people who try to put values on places of worship and history like the Vatican do so out of simplemindedness and bigotry. Second, you have no idea what the Catholic Church is. The Roman Catholic Church is the largest private charity in the world and in the USA. Millions of people are fed, sheltered, clothed, healed and educated every day throughout the world by the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church runs hospitals, clinics, universities, high schools, middle schools, elementary schools, soup kitchens, refugee camps, job training programs, battered womens shelters, and thrift stores throughout the world as just part of its good works for humanity. The Roman Catholic Church is responsible for inventing both the university and the hospital. Pretty evil things huh? You might want to take a business class. A charity does not continue to serve people and do good every day by selling off all its buildings, hospitals, soup kitchens and handing out the money to people and disappearing. When those people get done spending that money - the charity has already ceased to exist. Over a billion people alive today on earth don't have any agreement with you. I think even a billion more of the common sense muslims, Jews and others would also agree that your ideas are hateful and lacking in common sense.
19 :
The wealth and opulence you speak of consists of thousand year old pieces of art and nothing more. Lol, I think you are a little selective of your reality! The pope lives in three rooms, the Italian authorities deemed it unfit to live in because of the ancient electrical wiring and JP2 put jugs in the ceiling to catch rain water. The Vatican is priceless, it would be a great loss to the world to sell Western history off to the highest bidder, I would much rather it remain on display at the Vatican. Lol, I have never been threatened with hell, Catholics generally don't do that, you are thinking more angry southern fundies. Lol, the Vatican runs a deficit, you know? Even with that, the pope donated 100000 to Japan relief efforts. We reject reality? I think you need to take a good look into the mirror.
20 :
Most of the so called "wealth of The Church" is not because of actual currency but because of the perceived wealth. For example, last summer my wife and I visited the lovely city of Halifax, and we toured many old churches of many faiths. All of them we said to have very expensive land, but also that they were built centuries earlier. Because the item is so old, these churches were built on land that was worthless, and now in the 21st century is worth a fortune. The same is true of most Catholic parishes today. Now what about parishes built in *very* expensive cities like NYC, Rome, London, Dublin, Toronto, Melbourne... etc etc etc? The land at the time was dirt cheap, but now the location, based on modern city planning, is worth a ton, so that gives the false impression of wealth. Then there is the fact that some things that give them their wealth are *only* considered "expensive" for the simple reason that is belongs to The Church. such as the letter Henry VIII wrote to the pope in centuries past. Or an artifact that was used in the 11th century, etc. If it was just a regular item owned by a peasant, it's appraised value would be significantly less. Then looking at the money taken in today, lets compare it to the money given out. Since The Church is the world's largest charity, with all it's earnings being publicly declared for over 30 years, that "wealth" is short lived. Your argument is flawed. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to destroy such an argument for both yourself and other such like minded bigots. :D
21 :
Catholic Charities in my city does more that all of the other protestant charities combined. It sounds like you just have a chip on your shoulder.
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