Work in Vatican: January 2009

Why does the vatican work to establish muslim/catholic relations, but not protestant?
Why would the vatican work with muslim leaders to help build relationship, but denounce protestant and refuse to talk to them? Why does the pope care so much about what muslims think yet so little about what other Christian faiths think? The pope said that the catholic church is the one true church (which every catholic now uses in conversation with protestants) and "Other Christian communities are either defective or not true churches and Catholicism provides the only true path to salvation". Such a statement by the pope creates a further divide. By implying such a statement is to say that catholic and protestant churches do not worship the same God, and that one is worhsiping a falsle one. It goes beyond wrongful interpretation of the Word of God and creates a difference in religion like that of muslim and catholic. Lets make something clear, offices that were made to work with protestant churches do not necessarily mean that the catholic church is working to repair relations with protestant churches. To declare that the catholic church is better is further dividing the Christian faith, not repairing it. And, the pope made, in the same speech, comments raising the muslim faith yet denouncing (to a small degree, but insulting to protestants none the less) the protestant faith. Whoa now, I am not saying catholics worship satan or some stupid thing like that. I am saying that there is an apparent divide that is so great that makes it where catholics and protestants do not believe that when they die they will all go to Heaven. If my statement from the pope is incorrect, please someone shed some light on the subject. I believe the speech was made in July of 2007. I am not out to upset catholic, trying to understand how a great divide between Christian faiths is healthy for the Christian faith. And for those who reply that the catholic church is the one true church, you are trying to step on other denominations. The catholic church was the one true church, before it was split because of change. The catholic church has had the longest name, but the religion has changed, and as such, as divided many times. This 'one true church' comment is insulting and ignorance. The catholic religion has great divides even amoung itself, so there are multiple beliefs and interpretations within the catholic religion itself. This comment is not one of unity, it is one to say the catholic religion is the only path to God. This comment proves about what catholics think of protestants. "One true church", one meaning only, shows that it is the only church catholics accept. How can you say that catholics work with protestants when you have thousands upon thousands claiming the catholic church is the one true church? Protestant churches have many different denominations. I do not think a methodist is going to hell nor do i think they are not a church on the correct path. We agree to disagree, and I do not think that my church is the only truth. I am a baptist.
Religion & Spirituality - 24 Answers
Random Answers, Critics, Comments, Opinions :
1 :
You better do a lot of homework. You are not even in the ball park. The popes have had an ongoing discussion with protestants for years and years. You have no clue.
2 :
You have been reading biased news articles, I see. This is what the Pope said about non-Catholic Christian churches - One cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church." "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements." Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity." Compare two news articles printed at the time on from a secular news source and another from a Catholic news source and you will see the secular media completely misrepresented what the Pope said: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19692094/?GT1=10150 http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0703923.htm
3 :
Protestants are a part of The Church. Imperfectly, but included. They are our sepeated brothers and sisters. They are missing out on the fullness of Truth. The Catholic Church is the One True Church with many members perfectly in communion and other members who are not. If there is a division, it has been there long before our Holy Father's statement.
4 :
The Church does have dialogue with Protestants. I don't know what your source is, but it is not credible.
5 :
Protestants are division of the same religion. Islam is completely different cup of tea
6 :
Because the Vatican continues to teach that salvation is only possible through the Roman Catholic Church.
7 :
You might want to pay a little more attention to the international news as the Vatican has been in dialogue with many of the various Protestant denominations for many, many years in an effort to unify Christianity. Be well and be informed.
8 :
You might want to do a little honest research..
9 :
Muslims are HONEST! ...
10 :
I'm sorry that you have little knowledge of the Catholic Church so with respect do not pretend that you do!. The Churches mission is to bring the good news of salvation to all. I would assume since Islam teaches to kill those who do not believe as they do which would be all christians it would be even more important to have dialogue with them.
11 :
Because the vatican is out to destroy the protestant reformation ever since their "Council of Trent".Their goal is to bring the world under Roman Canon Law, as history has shown us .The "Whore of Revelation" has to be exposed before America becomes completely under it's control. And your thumbs down will not keep me from exposing this.
12 :
The Vatican has worked for years (decades?) with other Christians in a number of different "ecumenical" councils and has always offered to work with other Protestant groups. Usually it is the protestant organizations who shy away from the ecumenical movement. I am a protestant and happen to agree with the decision to stay away from most of those ecumenical councils I have read about. But it is NOT the fault of the Vatican.
13 :
The reasons you gave are just a few of why God will destroy Rome on the last days as indicated in Revelations 17 and 18. The name "Babylon" used there is the Christian name for Rome used at the time of the Apostles. The Catholic Church has corrupted the word of God and changed the doctrine of Christ to comply with there own creeds and tradition. The Protestants who were once Catholic (Martin Luther) saw the evil in the church and fled. They protested and thus we have the Pro testants who are bible believers.
14 :
Who told you that? Not correct. Maybe he is so concerned with muslims for the sake of their souls. They do not believe that Jesus is the son of God, and it is our job to try and get the truth out as Jesus told us to do. There is no way to expose the truth to other groups, if we do not have a respectable relationship with them. If we can not communicate with others, it would be impossible to spread God's word. By having a relationship with others, we can at least exchange our views. God bless you.
15 :
I had not thought of it that way but you are right islam does not worship the Christian God so obviously the catholics who believe they are a different faith any way must not but worship satan as muslims do.
16 :
Buddy there were Protestant clerics who had the voting status of Cardinals at the latest conclave to choose the present Pope. Do some homework. Of course all Christian denominations believe that their denomination is the one true Church: That's axiomatic. Why would one attend a congregation one felt was not the one true Church?
17 :
Are you kidding me? What was Vatican II if not a means to please the protestants? They had six protestant ministers help them to write the missal for the Novus Ordo. They took out so many things from the pre Vatican II church because it was offensive to protestants. I left the Novus Ordo because I was sick of everyone trying to please the protestants and themselves. I am now a Latin Rite Catholic who attends a church that is not recognized by the local diocese. The church I attend is 100% focused on pleasing only God. The pre Vatican II church made it very clear, and this is a DOGMA, that Catholics are forbidden to pray with people of other religions, and to enter the place of worship of another religion unless it is to pay respects at weddings and funerals, but even then they are not permitted to participate in any way. It is a MORTAL SIN to do so. This is something that the post Vatican II church cannot erase for they would be entirely in error. Judge my answer upon my honesty please, not upon whether you approve or not. Thank you. pax in nomine Domini
18 :
The Vatican is pursuing Dialogue with Muslims simply because it has been largely nonexistent for hundreds of years. I can't see why anybody would object to this. With Protestants, there has been dialogue. In fact, there has been close dialogue. I don't know where you have heard the Pope actually denouncing Protestantism. As for refusing to talk with them, and the notion that the Pope doesn't care what they think, well . . . that's a misguided opinion. What has caused you to form such opinions? I don't think the Pope would define other Christian communities as "defective" or "untrue" churches. This would be senseless. If he did, you would have to take the comment in context to what he was speaking. The Catholic church esteems itself as being the "universal" church because they claim an apostolic succession down to St. Peter the first Bishop of Rome. This has always been their claim. It's nothing new. This is the context that I think you're referring to above. Further, the Catholic church makes considerable effort to define itself as a catholic church (note "lower case" "c"). Look it up in the dictionary. As for the salvation issue, this stance is taken by just about every church out there. It is not something distinct about the Catholic church. There are certain things within most every church which defines them in their belief and pursuit of salvation. Consider things such as speaking in tongues, recognizing the Pope's infallibility, the administration of the Sacraments and on and on. Everyone of these churches believes that the true path to salvation is the one that they adhere to. Do I think that this would justify a claim, or support the implication of a claim, that Catholics and Protestants worship a different God? Absolutely not! There is an immense disconnect here that doesn't begin to compare to the expanse between Muslim and Catholics. I don't know if you have some animosity towards Catholics or if you've been tainted by anti-Catholic rhetoric, but I would hope you turn your attention to some more reliable sources before you form any judgements.
19 :
Key here is what the Pope said and did not say. The Pope said that the Catholic Church "is the only true path to Salvation" He did NOT say that the Catholic Church is the ONLY path to salvation. There is a lot of talk between Catholics and Protestants, Catholics tend to be more accepting of Protestants than the other way around. Read some posts here, how many say that all Catholics are going to hell? How many Catholics post that all Protestants are going to hell? Not any that I have seen. The fact is that we all need to live together without killing each other. For the most part, Catholics and Protestants already do this. We need Muslims to understand us and us them.
20 :
Check out the Documents of Vatican II, esp. The Decree On Ecumenism,Nostra Aetate,Religious Freedom and Lumenm Gentium Relations with Orthodox and trinitarian Protestant Churches have always had greater priority than with Non Christian Religions but the grave problems with Muslim societies, populations and groups call for intense efforts at diologue with them . The output in ecumenical dialogue has been massive just check the many volumes of interchristian agreements and diolgue documents Churches without Apostolic Succession (valid Holy Orders) and "true sacramental self- understanding" are not recognized as 'ecclesiae"( churches) as the Orthodox and Polish National Catholic Churches are,for example The Catholics and Orthodox have always had this position and this is not news to anyone who is involved in knowledgeable dialogue Check out the Catechism of the Catholic Church 813-848 in which great appreciation is shown over the unity that Trinitarian Protestants (Nicene Creed) and Catholics have in faith in Jesus and the Holy Spirit Catholicism teaches that one is saved by grace through faith which works through love. Nobody who dies in the state of grace will be excluded from Heaven ultimately, whether Catholic ,Orthodox or Protestant or Jew, Muslim, Hindu or any thing else Just about all Christian denominations believe and profess that they are better than the others in some way. Catholics and Orthodox believe that their Churches are the fullness that Protestants lack in some sense through their rejections and divisions Let us all work at drawing all Christians together in Christ the One Everlasting Head and all people together in understanding and cooperation.
21 :
I think you should read your facts again. Vatican 2 says that we must do our out most best to build Ecumenicism with the other Christain domination so that in time to come the Roman Catholic Church will understand the beliefs of the Protestants and the Roman CAtholic Church will share its beliefs doctrines and sacraments to the lesser Christain community, Euceminism is seen by the Mother Roman CAtholic Church to beidge toes between the defected cHristain communities which seperated from us the Mother Roman Catholic CHurch and in the hope we will be reunited again There have been ongoing talks with Anglicans Lutherans on avrious issues that divide us So far it seems ok though some hipcups The great Pope John Paul II said in Dominus Jesus in 2000 that while the Roman Catholic profess to be the graetest instrument of Jesus Christ who is the greatest truth. what about those outside the Roman Catholic Church Salvation comes to those who do good works and lead a good life will have a chance as the Beatitudes say. However they are deprived of a certain truth Pope Benedict XVI said recently in his document that Protestant churches born outside the 16 century lack Apsotlic sucession from the disciples, The Mass , the satity of the Eucharist and priesthood celibacy and especially the Anglicans who practiced via media bothe Catholic and reformed Therefore Pope Leo XIiI doctrine Apostic Curiae is infallible Vatican 2 council has something to say about the Muslim.The Catholics hold Muslims in high estemm. Though they may not believe Jesus as God they honour himas the Prophet and invoke the Blessed Mother in their devotions
22 :
Catholic theologians have been dialoging with Protestant theologians since the 60s. Actually they have talked with Baptist. For years, it was the Baptist who did not want to engage in ecumenical dialog. http://www.baptiststandard.com/2001/4_2/pages/catholic.html http://www.projectrestore.com/trumpet/tpt2008_01.htm Because of touchy world events the dialog with Muslims has been given some greater emphasis than in the past. The Pope hopes to help diffuse some of the world's tensions.
23 :
The Catholic church does work to establish dialog with Protestant Christians. "The Catholic Church embraces with hope the commitment to ecumenism as a duty of the Christian conscience enlightened by faith and guided by loveâ€¦Jesus himself, at the hour of his Passion, prayed 'that they may all be one' (John 17:21)." -- Pope John Paul II, Ut Unum Sint, May 25, 1995. The Catholic Church in the United States already has the following open dialogs with her sister Churches: - The North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation - The Joint Committee of Orthodox and Catholic Bishops - The Oriental Orthodox-Roman Catholic Consultation - The Polish National Catholic-Roman Catholic Dialogue - The Anglican-Roman Catholic Consultation USA - The Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue - Roman Catholic-Reformed Consultation - The United Methodist-Catholic Dialogue - Southern Baptist Convention-Catholic Dialogue - The Evangelical-Catholic Dialogue - Faith and Order Commission, National Council of Churches of Christ in the USA - Consultation with the National Council of Synagogues - Consultation with the Orthodox Union and the Rabbinical Council of America - Midwest Dialogue of Catholics and Muslims - Mid-Atlantic Dialogue of Catholics and Muslims - West Coast Dialogue of Catholics and Muslims Here is the joint declaration of justification by Catholics (1999), Lutherans (1999), and Methodists (2006): By grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping us and calling us to good works. http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html http://www.usccb.org/seia/officialdialogues.shtml With love in Christ.
24 :
The church is not going to change her doctrines just to bring Protestants back into the fold. That's like a citizen of France who wants to become President of the US, and then complains that we're not going to change the laws just to suit him.

When in Rome, Do the "Skip the Line" tours of the Vatican really work?
I am going to Rome in April, and see many of these "skip the line" tours offered. Do they really work, or are so many people skipping the line that they end up defeating their own purpose. Has anybody had any positve / negative experiences of their own?
Other - Italy - 5 Answers
Random Answers, Critics, Comments, Opinions :
1 :
Yes, the "skip the lines" tours does help but you will miss a lot of the art work on your way into the Sistene Chapel.
2 :
Well you have to look at it like this... if you don't try it you are in for a line, and if you do try it and there's a line well, maybe it's a shorter line lol. Good luck
3 :
We were there in February, very rainy morning and the line was wrapped around the block. We had booked a private tour and through a mix-up we got inside without waiting in line, our guide finally got inside too and we went on our way. We got to see everything, and spend as time in the Sistine Chapel as we wanted. I'm not sure about a large group tour though, you may not get as much time to look around. But skipping the line was great.
4 :
They do work! My dad and his girlfriend took a Mediterranean cruise in Oct. from Athens to Nice,France. They hired private local drivers to tour sites inland. When my Dad was in Rome, his tourguide said "I can help you skip the line and get into The Vatican right away, just give a guard some money." Sure enough, my Dad did that and didn't have to wait in line, which had thousands of people!
5 :
If your just going on vacation I wouldn't suggest it, but I have used the skip line tour alot in the past. It alot faster and shorter. It gives you plenty of time to spend just looking around the vatican court office more than just standing in around looking at artwork. I'd suggest taking the full tour at least once. You'll be missing out if you don't. Some of the art work that you'll pass up is magnificant. For a first timer I wouldn't use it. Glad your visiting Vatican City. That's favorite location in all of Italy. Ita a wonderful place. You won't regret it. Trust me. You'll remember the trip for a long time to come.

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When in Rome, Do the "Skip the Line" tours of the Vatican really work